Necro GROUP DPS Reference & Discussion!
This is current through House of Thule expansion, 10/28/2010.
Please feel free to post to this Forum now with any updates to the presented lists. Posts made with updates may be deleted once the updates have been incorporated into the lists and they are deemed no longer necessary. This is an attempt to keep this post from growing beyond usefulness.
Scrat Edit: a lot of info in the original thread started by Usul is now out-dated and/or completely wrong (due to game changes) since it was originally posted in 2005. This is especially true if you try to read it in chronological order. The number of changes both to our spells but also the mechanics of them & focus is mind boggling.
So, I've taken the liberty to update the original post , while holding true to the original idea from Usul.
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I will no longer be providing public charts for ez viewing on how to maximize the necromancer spell arsenal. While this thread is now out-dated due to Veil of Alaris expansion --- the principle & intent of the below information remains solid & true. Additionally, there are newer abilities & enhancements that are not covered in this topic. I will continue providing this type of updated information for rk2 and rk3 accessable only in the subscriber lounge. Community members are very welcome to add current information to this thread or start your own.
As of July 20, 2011 patch - our 2-tick (swift) DoT spells have been nerfed dramatically i.e. 65% for Raid Bosses. For the first time in the life of the everquest necromancer, some of our spells now are exclusively down-tuned for raid bosses. This is what the new spell data looks like:
Tenak's Flashblaze Rk. III
Classes: NEC/88
1: Decrease Current HP by 5686 per tick (If Not Raid Boss)
3: Decrease Current HP by 1990 per tick (If Raid Boss)
Text: You are engulfed in flames.
As such, the spell casting order in this topic is no longer remotely accurate for raiders as a starting base-line for your quest to perform your peak potential.
Lots of players ask what their casting order should be for maximum dps. We see this request time and time again...as we should since we are a DPS class, and it makes sense to perform at your highest potential. I will now start trying to provide a template, a quick-look chart to make it easy. Sort of. However, I will be making some basic assumptions:
- You are using Rank-2 spells if the spell is ranked
- You have all associated type-3 augments for your spells
- You have all of your DoT spells
- You have identical focus levels & limits for all resist types
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The chart below is very, very simple. It is a listing of our DoTs, and is sorted by DPS. DPS is the damage per tick, divided by 6. This chart does not reflect any thought towards a maintainable rotation for long-term ADPS sustainment, nor does it reflect any considerations towards various resist immunities. Those extra considerations is something you need to determine yourself; replace and sort the spells according to your targets.
This chart directly below is updated for level 90, House of Thule expansion. For previous versions (level 85, Underfoot), see way below. I have taken the liberty to show the linking of the Fast DoTs for simplicity. I will not be updating this chart here in the public forums with new spell data; I will reserve sharing my future work with necrotalk supporters / subscribers.
This is nothing more than a customized version of Atvars's necrodotsv1.4 that anybody can download and customize to plug in your own exact focus, aa, spell ranks, etc for maximum self-tuning. For the purposes of this chart, this is pure maximum grouper. You raiders with varying foci & mixed assortments of ranked spells will need to tweak for individuality.
I have hopefully made the chart large enough to allow you to pick your top 12 spells even when factoring multiple resist-limitations.
For spell-casting order, this chart does not reflect any of the following:
- Focus Damage
- 3rd Spire of the Necromancer bonus damage
- Critical Damage from AA or EPIC or ROBE or Anything Else
- Destructive Cascade damage
- The capability to keep the DoT active (duration)
- Total damage done per spellcast (for duration fights & soloing)
- ...or any extra damage. The above chart is a base dps sorted highest dps to low.
So keep in mind if you are wearing 0-55% (maxlevel 80) fire focus and 15-90% (maxlevel 85) magic focus odds are your magic pyres may overcome your fire, and change your casting order.
The above data was pulled from a downloadable chart originaly provided by Usil, morphed & updated over the years by Atvar and eventually by Solithan. It represents a lot of hard work and time invested by your fellow masters of mayhem and is absolutely worth a download for some hardcore details that the above chart does not reflect. If you would like to download a copy of the current spreadsheet, see the bottom of this post.
Here is a morphed version of the above chart, but with plant bane damage factored in. If you've got a druid with you normally casting their skin to vine series, our corruption spells become quite viable.
Okay, now you have probably asked yourself...where are our swarm pets? Good question. They are not represented, because of the following reasons:
1) The level of pet focus you have makes a dramatic difference in how much DPS the skeletal swarms do
2) The amount of pet AA you have invested in flurry makes a signficant difference in how much DPS the swarms do
3) The amount of pet AA you have invested in critical attacks makes a difference in how much DPS the swarms do
and...
4) The DPS charts are for a burn scenario - when you want squeak out every potential point of damage in some short period of time...which would include you using a OOW robe click or 7th vet + 3rd spire and maybe even a glyph. Since these are multiplicative effects for our DoT spells, the DPS of even your 12th strongest DoT will provide more DPS than a skeletal swarm spell can with maximum raid pet focus + max pet aa investment.
However, for your everage group xp grind...you bet those skeletal swarms can & should be used depending on your AA & focus investment, as the swarms can provide substantially higher dps than many of our spells. This is something you need to figure out on your own; there should be some skeletal swarm parses floating around here to give you some numbers to eyeball.
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Now, some further enhancement ideas for your DPS:
Tribute for DoT spell haste link
We all probably have some worn generic detrimental spell haste, such is common on our class legs. However, the haste provided both in the group scene and the raid scene is less than what can be obtained by using Tribute.
- Group maximum @ 18% link
- Raid maximum @ 23% link
- Tribute Affliction Haste @ 33% !!!
Obviously, the faster you can stack your DoTs, the quicker your ramp-up time and the overall higher your DPS will be. For tribute spell haste, you can refer to this Tribute FAQ for more detail than you probably want, or just hit your hometown tribute master and purchase the maximum rank of Twinge of Pain
Spell Haste Buff link
In addition to Tribute DoT haste, you will also be wanting the cleric spell haste buff on you 24/7. This can be accomplished via cleric merc, or by asking your group/raid cleric to hit you with the buff. For the level 85 crowd, this is the Aura (group) / Blessing (single tgt) of Loyalty series. This spell buff haste provides an additional 10% spell haste that works on everything you can cast, including DoTs.
Forceful Rejuvination
Okay, what is this AA doing here? Simple; it instantly forces a recast-timer reset for all of your memorized spells. Until recently it really didnt make sense for a necromancer to use this ability, outside of maybe quickly buffing pet with haste or a fast load & ready of our invulnerability spells. However, with our Fast 2-Tick DoTs in House of Thule - it gives you the ability to ramp up your burn another notch by recasting them earlier, or casting another pair of the linked happiness without waiting for the refresh.
Tonic of Efficiency Affinity. link
These provide a buff that extends the duration of DoT spells. There are many versions that are level-restricted; you need to look 'em up on lucy using the above link. Keep in mind that focus effects degrade 5% per level over their listed limit - this means you can use a potion with a max spell limit 19 levels below yours - and still get extension benefit. And those that use the most current versions of the potions see additional ticks added to our lengthier spells.
Huh? How does 1% extension help? Lets examine the mechanics of duration focus work, using a standard 30-second pyre, or 5 tick.
Worn Focus at 18%. Result = 35.4 seconds, or not quite an extra tick. However, since the minimum is 1 tick, bam! +6 seconds duration extension for 6-tick pyres.
Additional Spell focus (potions) at 5%. result = 31.5 seconds, or way below an extra tick. However, since the minimum is 1 tick, bam! +6 seconds duration for another tick. Or, even if you got 0.5% extension potion due to degredation, that's a 30.15 duration DoT. Again, since the minimum is 1 tick...Bam!
--use both, and bam bam! +2 ticks.
Toss in our lingering death AA for innate DoT duration of up to 3 ticks... kerpow! You've got 10-tick pyres, baby! Bring on the fat stack o' doom. Can you feel it?
Always remember, regardless of the focus type - the following rules:
- You can have 1 worn focus, 1 spell focus, 1 innate focus that all stack with each other.
- If you have multiple of the same type (i.e. 3 worn) the highest maximum focus % will be applied. Every time. So if you have a 15-60% group focus that provides an average of 37.5% focus, and another focus that is 0-65% for an average of 32.5%...your spell will always use the highest raw %, or the 0-60% version even though the other foci provides a higher average and much higher minimum.
Okay, why are we talking about extending the duration of DoTs instead of increasing our DPS?
Simple. Increasing the duration of your 5-tick spells will mean they wont fade as fast during burn activities, boosting your total damage per mob. It also means you wont have to recast those 5-tick spells during many group fights and waste a ton of mana, requiring you to deathbloom more often which can be a detriment to the group.
Also...since enchanters aura can enable twincast...a twincasted DoT does double base damage per tick, then any additional damage modifiers / focus / effects on top of that. Would you like a twincasted double-damage 5-tick pyre? Or a twincasted double-damage 13-tick pyre?
However - the big bonus is for those burns where you have more than 60 seconds of time to do your damage. Having your 5-tick spells extended by even a single tick greatly increases your ability to manage your DoT stack upkeep - and prevent a tick from being shy a spell or two. The greater the duration of our spells, the more time we have before things start fading i.e. the more time we have to get our initial stack rolling i.e. the more time we can suppliment our DoT dmg with other activities such as clicks and feigns.
Details on the potions:
- The buff is a base 3hr 15min duration, and with max spell casting reinforcement you get nearly 5 hours duration
- The buff will provide a minimum of 1 tick duration extension for all spells within its level limit
- The buff will help your ADPS & efficiency in group/solo settings
- The buff will dramatically help your burn/ADPS in raid settings by giving your longer time between spell fades to allow a more managable, reliable stack upkeep
The potions are made with the alchemy tradeskill, so require a shaman. Your mileage finding them for sale in the bazaar will vary dramatically, as these really only greatly benefit one class...the necromancer - so demand isn't that high. If you are in a large guild or have shaman buddies - definately try to keep yourself stocked with these...but keep in mind these are a PITA to make; you make 1 potion per combine, the components only stack to 20, the trivial on the combines are the highest in alchemy. Some of us, self included, have created a shaman alt for the sole purpose of keeping ourself stocked with these potions & never having to depend/rely/hope on others.
Since you should be most concerned with extending the duration of your 5-tick DoTs as we are talking about DPS...the level of these potions is irrelevant as long as they work for the spell you cast i.e. within 19 levels. You will get +1 tick on Soul Reapers Pyre if you use the V versions (level 70 max) and you will still only get +1 tick on Soul Reapers Pyre if you use the VIII versions (level 85 max). So play smart, use whatever potion types you can get your hands on that works. Care nothing about having the best version.
Lingering Death AA (Class, 3 ranks)
Just like the tonic above extends your DoT durations making for longer lasting pyres, so does Lingering Death Alternate Advancement ability. Each rank will passively extend the duration of your standard DoTs by 1 tick. Maxed, this series gives you 3 extra ticks per standard DoT.
Note I keep saying "standard" DoT, which excludes the fast DoTs. Haste & Duration focus for DoTs have a minimum duration of (24) seconds, so our fast DoTs are excluded from these benefits.
Tonic of Resonant xxxx link
These potions were introduced with the Underfoot expansion, and provide a buff that allows you to proc a nuke with every detrimental spell cast.
There are various "types" and levels. The type (fire, elemental, frost) have a dependancy on what type of spell will trigger the proc. If you use Fire potions, you will only proc when you cast a fire based spell. If you use chromal, you will only trigger a proc when you cast a chromatic based spell. My personal favorite is Elemental, as it will trigger when you cast any detrimental spell, though it does less damage than any of the singular focus potions.
- The buff duration is base 30 minutes, so with max spell casting reinforcement you can squeeze 45 minutes from them.
- The buff does NOT stack with our spell series Bestow Undeath. In fact, bestow undeath will overwrite these buffs. There are additional stacking conflicts you may want to investigate.
- The various 'types' of potions give you options on the type of spell. Be aware there are types of potions that you simply cannot make use of, such as chromal and frost.
- The version of the potions determine the amount of damage each proc does.
- The potions have a 25% procrate
- The proc from the potions can critical, and when they do crit you will get the crit_bonus damage applied from AA.
- You cannot proc from both a potion, and a sympathetic augment on the same spell cast.
**Since the proc is an instant damage spell (Nuke) these can and will break root and mez.** So when you are using these, dont go root-rotting or start stacking on a shaman VP'd mob, etc.
Again, these are made via the Alchemy tradeskill. However, since these potions effectively boost the DPS for all detrimental-casting classes...the demand i.e. availability for these may be sufficient for you to easily bazaar shop for them.
Since we are concerned about boosting our DPS, obviously you will want to use the highest level of potion you can use as each level provides a different damage amount.
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Now, for anybody that has missed the AA Guide on what to buy, when - to ensure your DPS is always maximized - please refer to this thread in the AA section.
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Epic 1.5 2.0 2.5
As we all know, using our epic provides a worn focus to increase our DoT critical % rate. The 1.5 provides 4% and the 2.0 provides 8% and the 2.5 (epic augment for the 2.0) provides 10%. This worn Critical DoT (xx%) focus does not have a maximum spell level restriction, and this is why every necromancer even remotely concerned about keeping their DPS at the highest potential rate uses the epic.
If you ever reach a point of seriously considering if you should use some fancy, cool super-high hp/m/mods primary item instead of your epic...redirect your thought process on the question of what color panties I am wearing because that would make more sense, even though I dont wear panties. If, in the distant future - a necromancer primary item is introduced that provides more DPS than the epic - that is when you stop using it. DPS > all. Do not be fooled by end-game raider magelo profiles with some fancy new 2500hp/m primary - that is just to boost their eqplayer profile rankings.
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Worn Spell Focus
We have 5 different resist check spell flavors we utilize, and have gear with worn focus to match. I will sort them in order of highest priority, to least.
- Fire, typically on arms
- Magic, typically on head
- Poison, typically on wrist
- Corruption, typically on range or a type-3 augment
- Disease, typically on wrist
The slots above reflect the past 3 years of content. Prior to that, they occupied various other slots. I intentionally placed corruption higher than disease because of the very low resist-rate we enjoy using corruption spells. Additionally, in older raid content that previously had multiple spell immunities - corruption is always reliable unless the mob is immune to all magic.
Spell focus degrades 5% per level from the maximum level listed. So if you have 0-60% Fire focus that has a maximum level restriction of (85), then it will degrade by 3% per level for spells that exceed level 85. (60 x .05 = 3) It works out to this:
- 60% at level 85
- 57% at level 86
- 54% at level 87
- 51% at level 88
- 48% at level 89
- 45% at level 90
- 42% at level 91
- 39% at level 92
- 36% at level 93
- 33% at level 94
- 30% at level 95
And in case this is not obvious - it is the level of the spell you cast that determines how it degrades. Focus degredation has absolutely nothing to do with your level.
Twincast AA
In case you have not read the description of this AA under the master list details, or one of the many posts here & elsewhere by disgruntled necromancers...our Twincast AA (passive) does NOT function for any DoT spell. It only functions for instant spells (nukes).
Yes, all DoTs are 'twincast enabled' and can twincast while you are under the benefits of the enchanter twincast aura. Only.
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For level 85 maximum, Underfoot spells - use the following chart:
If you would like a downloadable zip file of current necromancer spells with incredible details such as dpm, ave dmg, customizable to choose rk1,2,3 spells, customizable for your specific worn focus, etc...then thank Atvar and check out this link.
Last edited by scrat; 12-13-2011 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Added note about no longer updating topic.
